[Kelevra]

I had an in depth discussion with a buddy at work today about internet download piracy and the like.

i said things like 'its bullshit how much cd's costs compared to tapes when its actually cheaper to print cd than tapes, etc etc.'

his reply was akin to 'so because its a ripoff its ok to steal it? since when is it ok to compare the assembly price to the retail price? if it you dont want it dont buy the shit.'

which is a very fair and valid argument, but it doesnt sway me to pay out the ass for music i might not even like, in my opinion there should be a happy medium where you dont get your wallet ripped up for some mp3 files.

on to the point of the thread, do you steal music??(yes im saying stealing not downloading, because thats what it is)

whats your opinion on the subject and how much do you download?

[Fedora.Pirate]

Firstly, can we rename this thread "Grand Theft Audio" please

I download music without paying for it (I don't call it stealing as if I steal from a shop - there's something not there afterwards if you get what I mean) but I also buy CDs - but only when I think they're worth it. I refuse to pay more than $20 for an album as I don't think they're worth it. If I see a good CD for $15 or what ever you can be sure I'll buy it, but if there's a piece of music I want to listen to and they want me to pay through the nose for it then I'll try to download it and if I can't then I just don't get it simple.
I don't see it as a sale lost as I was never planning on buying it in the first place.
Finally I also see downloading as a "try before you buy" type thing, I don't want to pay $12 for an album then find there's only one half decent track on the whole thing.

[ExplodingMonk...]

there is a happy medium, itunes store, its like 99c per track

problem solved!

[lozinabox]

i still prefer to buy cds. i dont download.. mainly due to a virus problem i had once. part of the fun is looking at the cover art

[Fedora.Pirate]

there is a happy medium, itunes store, its like 99c per track

problem solved!

I have considered it a few times but discounted it for the following reasons:

• Inferrior format to CD (mp3 is a lossy format, it is also a closed file format - if they were avaliable in ogg I'd probably be doing that)
• No hard copy.

I'm sure I had more, but they currently escape me.

[sky]

i also see downloading music as a "make sure you don't spend money on shit" mechanism.
i have to admit i download alot (mainly because the music i listen to will cost me at least $30 to import) but i still have a CD collection the consists of more than 200 albums that i adore.

[prostitot]

I download, unless its an exceptionally awesome album - in which case I'll go out and buy it, cos hell, they deserve it =)

It's like, you don't just go and buy clothes, right? You have to try them on first to make sure they fit/you like them/worth the money!
Downloading music is me making sure it fits right =P If I then consider it worth the 30$$, then yeah, sure, why not.

[ExplodingMonk...]

I have considered it a few times but discounted it for the following reasons:

• Inferrior format to CD (mp3 is a lossy format, it is also a closed file format - if they were avaliable in ogg I'd probably be doing that)
• No hard copy.

I'm sure I had more, but they currently escape me.

No hard copy? just put it on your ipod.

And i dont see how its inferior to a cd, cd's can get scratched and the musics gone forever, and unless u open up ure hard drive and go digging around with a screwdriver, mp3's dont usually have this problem. plus, no one uses cd's anyway, ppl only buy cds to put on to their comp to put on their ipods

[Fedora.Pirate]

1. I don't have an ipod - and even if I did it would mean I had no true "original". I'm weird and if I pay for something I want to be able to hold up something and say "this is what I paid for".
2. CDs use wav format (an effectively loss-less format), mp3s are lossy (as in they compress and cut bits out to create a smaller file size)
3. My original CDs don't get scratched as I rarely use them, as you say I put them on my computer I also generally burn a copy for listening purposes so I can use that and not have to fear getting it damaged.
4. I do still use CDs in two ways; firstly out lounge room is in the center of my flat and the best place to play music from - it's only got a standard CD players. Secondly instead of an ipod I have a MP3 CD player - for me it's just as good but requires CDs to play.

[lozinabox]

plus, no one uses cd's anyway, ppl only buy cds to put on to their comp to put on their ipods

i use cds. theres something special about listening to music without having something stuck in my ears. it means i can dance and jump around without worrying that im gonna break my mp3 player.. or turning on a computer for just to listen to music.

[CH!MP]

i use cds. theres something special about listening to music without having something stuck in my ears. it means i can dance and jump around without worrying that im gonna break my mp3 player.. or turning on a computer for just to listen to music.

got iPod-to-speaker plug? its the same as CDs. one cable.

i tend to download most of my music these days since i have decent internet and im cheap. But then again i value my CDs more highly than Mp3s on my hard drive. They're more special i buy CDs for more than $20 tho.
i was reading an article a while ago (don't ask where coz i cant remember) that said some record labels were considering releasing music for free because apparently many bands make a lot more cash from touring than from record sales. I don't really see this happening, but i guess the idea is that more people will download an album if it's free and then buy concert tickets. makes sense i suppose....

[evil]

I have considered it a few times but discounted it for the following reasons:

• Inferrior format to CD (mp3 is a lossy format, it is also a closed file format - if they were avaliable in ogg I'd probably be doing that)

Haha oh come on. I really don't see that as a big deal.

I'm not saying that mp3s are better, cause I agree CDs and OGG files are definitely superior quality. But there are obviously limitations to digital music and mp3s, especially when it's being downloaded freely and even more especially for online stores like iTunes. The songs need to be transferred quickly and efficiently, hence the mp3 compression. Even if they offered OGG files or other super-ridiculously-high-quality formats that you'll probably never need, there's still the issue of bandwidth. OGG and WAV files are freakin' huge compared to mp3s and would put a much greater load on their servers if they had to send those out every minute. I imagine it would end up being charity for the 99c they ask. And it's not like they're gonna ship your music to you physically for 99c (or in most cases $0.00 )

But so long as the mp3 is compressed to a reasonable quality (atleast 192kbps or even VBR is perfect) and free of evil DRM (digital rights management that limits your ability to burn/play the mp3) then it'll sound just like CD quality on any CD player, iPod, and even most really large speaker setups. I had my 17th birthday party at a venue with a pretty cool speaker set up, and the music was coming from an mp3 playlist. Though the staff there were pretty snotty and gave us a faulty projector, I really can't fault them on the music - it sounded pretty damn awesome!

I'm just saying that unless you're a DJ who needed to play some music for a huge arena, or a TV producer who wanted to broadcast a national primetime show with music in the episode, then it really shouldn't matter too much!

I do think there need to be some drastic changes in the music industry (some merely just to solidify and dare I say, legalize, changes that are already happening out of the industry's control), but let's be realistic. If you want the definitive holy grail of quality, I think we're always gonna have to shell out some moolah! Cause even if record labels do start handing out free mp3s, I highly doubt they're gonna personally deliver production-ready formats to our doorsteps for free any time soon.

Just my extremely general and redundantly lengthy 99 cents.

[sexy]

Records ftw

[Fedora.Pirate]

Huge post - go read it

At evil:
Ogg files aren't necesarly superior in quality (they're also lossy, and have a variable bitrate) it's just that they're an open format and I support that.
I agree MP3s are generally plenty good enough, my 18th's music came off a laptop playing MP3s I also had no problem. But my thing is which you also touched on - if I'm paying for this I want the best quality I can get;

If you want the definitive holy grail of quality, I think we're always gonna have to shell out some moolah!

[Sam]

I generally have a rule. If i like more than 3 songs on a cd i will buy it. But Like Explodingmonkeyarmpit said I use itunes!! It's great. A lot of bands I listen to you can never find the cd's in normal stores so it's easy just to buy it from home (and way cheaper)

The only downside is you don't have the booklet from the cd's. The used for an example is that they use an artist called Alex Pardee who is my favorite painter so I always buy there cd's.

[lozinabox]

got iPod-to-speaker plug? its the same as CDs. one cable.

one- i dont have an ipod. ipods suck because they break a lot and the only way to get them fixed is to send them back to the company. you cant even return it to the store where you bought it if you have had it less than 24 hrs! no joke.

i have a mp3 player by another brand. there are little to none accessories for it.. do you know why? THEY ARE ALL FOR YOUR CONFORMATIST IPOD.

there are lots of mp3 players out there that are just as or even better than some of the ipods out there.

any music- speakers. i do have a speaker plug and speakers. but the quality still doesnt beat comming from cd to sterio or cd to cd player. it cant be matched. plus the sound is so much softer from those speakers with my mp3 player..as they are designed for an IPOD which sucks... so the only way for me to hear sound from it is if both the speakers and mp3 player are maxed out on sound. pretty crap if you ask me.

[CH!MP]

one- i dont have an ipod. ipods suck because they break a lot and the only way to get them fixed is to send them back to the company. you cant even return it to the store where you bought it if you have had it less than 24 hrs! no joke.

i have a mp3 player by another brand. there are little to none accessories for it.. do you know why? THEY ARE ALL FOR YOUR CONFORMATIST IPOD.

there are lots of mp3 players out there that are just as or even better than some of the ipods out there.

For starters you can get a replacement iPod if it breaks within a year of purchase. Pretty damn good if you ask me. Not many Mp3 players have that kind of warranty. I'd like to see your Mp3 player manufacturer match that. But yes, to FIX them you must send back to Apple.

Secondly, it makes a lot of sense to make accessories for iPods because so many people own them (iPod socks anyone ). I have a Nano, which is pretty lame, but i have several accessories for it oh and iTunes is uber. so i like being a "conformatist" iPod user

[Fridgemagnet]

I don't have muc h music. Occasionally I download some, but most of it I just get from my brother's computer, because he has a whole heap of music.

As for file type, I don't care all that much, and the same when it comes to the use of mp3 players.

[ledemente]

perhaps you might consider looking into magnatune?

It's similar to iTunes, but only superficially.
One of the interesting points they make is that you shouldn't have to pay the same price for a track by the White Stripes as you pay for a track by an obscure band that no one has ever heard of.

But more importantly, they're a record company.
And they split all profits 50/50 with the artist.

Yah-huh.

[sexy]

perhaps you might consider looking into magnatune?

That site is useless. I had a look at it, and, as they are a record company like you said, they only sell music from artists they've signed. Now, this would be ok for someone like Mushroom Records, but for a unknown label, its useless. I hadn't heard of a single artist they have. They don't have the White Stripes! (even though you didn't imply they did). So, maybe if you want to go buy a song from bands such as aptly named "Marginal Prophets", then stick with iTunes, or as i said before, records ftw.


ps. Ha! Now who's stupid. (It's me)

This post has been edited by sexy: Sep 18 2007, 09:21 AM